請問你地有無實行change control? 即係programmer改完一d program之後, 交俾上頭批核, 再由上頭將新object放落production內蓋過舊object. 如果有, 你地係點做到? 流程係點同咩有咩tools要用到?

你指.net是vb.net嗎？可以再詳細小小嗎，可能或者應該會比到小小咁小小意見你掛~~

無論 vb.net 或者 c#.net 都無所謂~

i thinks you means deployment procedure in SDLC.
From my experience, usually after programmer complete a bug fix or enhancement, we cannot apply the change to production server immediately. We will apply the change to UAT server first for user to perform UAT. After complete the UAT, we deploy the change to production server.
thus the stage is
complete the change by programmer -> put the chnage to version control server (e.g. MS Source Safe) -> Filling Deployment Form (indicate which file is updated and its version in Source Safe) -> Submit for approval (usually involve supervisor or above of user department, system support department, IT supervisor or above) -> Support Team deploy the change to UAT server -> User Perform UAT -> User Signoff UAT -> Filling Deployment Form for Production server -> promote the change from UAT to Production server -> put the change from SourceSafe to Production environment

for .NET, the files involved include
Web.Config (web)
*.dll (web & win app)
*.aspx (web)
*.ascx (Web)
resources , XML files (if included)
App.Config (Win App.)
etc.

Project files don't need to deploy

hope I don't misunderstand your question

[ 本帖最後由 mrpanda 於 2009-4-16 03:21 PM 編輯 ]

無錯係要呢d~ 我地依家一腳踢由coding到deployment都係自己來. 但老細開始要睇audit, 要我地實行番正常既procedure.

依家得programmers有softsafe, 如果manager要參與deployment, 佢部機係咪都要裝softsafe? 洗唔洗買license?

前半部分我明可以經 check in/check out 做到將 objects 由 programmer機搬落uat server, 但之後既"put the change from SourceSafe to Production environment " 應該點做到?

If for IT auditing, you need to separate role of each member in the team. Each member can acts as several roles but each role of the member cannot have conflicts. For example, member A is developer, he/she cannot allow to update UAT server content and he/she cannot access production server. Also, he/she cannot approve the change. This is the formal practie but depending on the resources, some roles may be simplified.

I use two version control software before. One is SourceSafe and the other one is PVCS. In PVCS, you can setup promote group so that you can divide the groups into Development, UAT and Production. System Support(SS) team member only get files from the group depending on which stage you are in. For example, a programmer complete the change, he/she check-in the chnage to the development environment(DEV), then he/she submit the change to SS, SS promotes the files from DEV to UAT according to the submitted document. Then SS get (NOT Check-out) all changes to SS workspace. As SS does not know the structure of the application, developer has the responsibility to state clearly how to get the files from version control software so that SS can follow the instructions to get the files and complile the files into DLL.

for example, your Win app called App have the below files:
A.cs, B.cs, C.cs, D.cs, App.config
you are now deploy the changes and files involved are A.cs B.cs, so you need to check-in A.cs and B.cs with the corresponding label (for sourceSafe) so that SS can get the changes according to the label. Second, if your company does not provide an UAT environment for compiling the changes, you need to compile yourself and then check-in the output. In this case, you need to check-in the complied executable App.exe for SS to get the file and put to the UAT environment. In this situation, SS don't need to compile the change, SS just promote the changed files from DEV to UAT and copy the affected files to UAT environment. After the UAT completed and satified, Developer submit Change Request Form  (CRF) for production deployment (need other doc for auditing such as UAT sign-off). Programmer need to submit code review together with the CRF. The code review must be performed by other programer. Then SS collected all the rewquired doc, they can get the complied EXE from UAT to Production environment and promote the EXE from UAT to PROD in order to keep each version of each file in sync. You must notice that never promote files from DEV to PROD except have approval from an appointed person.

So that for SourceSafe, since the software have no Group concept, you may need to implement this version control model using its "Label" feature. for example, DEV start with "DEV_", UAT start with "UAT_" depending on your design of the infrasture of the verison control

If your manager is a member in the deployment procedure, depending on the manager's role. If he involve promote version, the manager need to install the version control software. If the manager only approve change request, he/she don't need to install the version control software.

Since the deployment procedures can be very complicated and involve many documents, so need to depending on your company scale (such as how many persons involved) to design the deployment procedures. My past experience involve the following departments:
User (can be any departments)
IT - Development
IT - System Support
IT - Technical Support
Each department must have at least onr approver to approve the workflow of the documents.

In addition, your chnage control must involve the following components:
1. Rollback procedures
2. Emergency Deployment

Hope can help u

Actually, basically, the version control software only involve the below basic operations:

1. Check-out
2. Check-in
3. Get Files

so that depending on the version control software, the workflow may be different. For example, using sourceSafe (just suggestion as I am not Admin of sourceSafe)

you can setup three version control server (need to check license agreement. Idon't sure the license policy)
1. DEV
2. UAT
3. PROD

using this model, each server act as  one promotion group (DEV group, UAT group & PROD group). Promotion is check-in files from one server to the other one

Second, you may consider using labelling to separate group. There may be better solution but need to check the capability of sourceSafe functionalities.

If you don't use sourceSafe, you can also use the simplest method: create folder for each version but you lack of the most powerful functionality of version control software - "Version Comparing".

Thus depending on the available resources of your company to design the change control procedures. But you must remember all things must be trace-able for auditing purpose

你所講既野我都明白哂, 只係唔明白點樣響VSS度SETUP.

我之前裝套VSS只係簡單一個DATABASE (named as VSS). 跟住下面開folder裝每一個project, 只是這樣...


programmer 響 visual studio 改完野自己 響 visual studio內publish 到 testing server 自己test


test完又自己PUBLISH去PRODUCTION SERVER
(以上同一MENU, 去PRODUCTION FOLDER)

初初SET只係想得到VERSION CONTROL既好處

依家要行番足CHANGE CONTROL, 我估你講既野係響vss admin 既option 裡面set,但係唔係好知點攪???

what procedures of your version conreol included?

You may use "Label" function in VSS as the simplest method for version control.
Change control is not equal to version control. Version control is only part of change control. If your problem now is only version control. I think you can try "Label" whether can fulfill your requirements

I think you must disconnect version control integration between .net from production server first. Programmers are only allow pulish to dev server. Chek-out/check-in in UAT and Prod server must done manually. Otherwise, "programmer can access production server" must be challenged by IT security auditors

I think currently you want to focus on the setting of VSS? You want to complete the verision part of the whole change control first? If this is true, we may try to focus on this issue first

[ 本帖最後由 mrpanda 於 2009-4-16 06:12 PM 編輯 ]

No. I mean my original usage on VSS is just for Version Control. But now we need to extend it to the full Change Control process.

至少你要compile (build) 個solution做executable,而唔係直接deploy source code去production environment.

其實 change control 係 management 嘅野, version control 只係其中一環, 而VSS只係 version control 嘅 tool. 如果你要 做Change Control, 並唔係話 媽VSS extend 由 version control  到 change control, 而係要 build 一個適合你公司嘅 change control model. 而我之前所講 Promotion Group 只係一 個version control software 嘅 concept, VSS 未必有, 因此你可能要consider呢個 Promotion Group Model 適唔適合你公司 in terms of resources and workflow. 而 VSS version control 係 based on labelling 呢個 concept. 所以你如果用 VSS 就要 用labeling 嚟做. Full Change Control Process 睇餸食飯, 視乎過唔過 到auditor 過關. 而最有機會俾 auditor challenge 喺:
1. Role Conflict
2. Fallback procedure
3. Emgerency Procedure
4. Tracing of documents
5. Escaluation of duty
6. Document deliviable

公司用英文 reply 較差, sorry

In conclusion, VSS 於整過 change control 流程 involve 好少, 最重要係 ensure 所有嘢 有sign-off, documents 同可追溯每一個step, 同一出事要最 快rollback 到
如果話 VSS  個 part, 你可以 睇 labeling meet 唔meet到你requirements

sorry 咁又無法即時做到fill change control了, 目標太高.

Microsoft sell 我用 visual studio team system, 但呢個時勢邊攞到budget?! 所以用最平既方法fulfill minimum requirement 先. minimum requirement 係 1. role conflict. <只有manager先可以攪production deployment, programmer唔可以>. 其他幾項等好景d先做proposal.

睇黎, 要做呢個流程一定要用software 扶助, 而vss似乎唔可以簡單達到呢個minimum requirement?

單靠 set folder 既 security (免費方法) 似乎更無可能...

Team system involve version control and workflow but you may need a lot of effort to follow its operations. I think you use VSS6.0d together with supporting documentary (which is the most complicated) are enough

As I know, there is no software for the whole workflow without any customization. I suggest you try to implement the emergency change and rollback procedures as there is really in need and these procedures are documentary works only. No software is involved.

Hope can help you

THANK YOU, 雖然無最終答案, 但係討論中獲益不少, 思路方向亦清楚左~

其實下次除左討論之外都可以用GOOGLE爬下文，有時都學到唔少野，仲可能好快搵到要搵既野，希望你個PROJECT可以順利完成

As i think you are in very early stage, you may not setup the broder of your project, so there are many possibilities, just a brainstorm. If you have any questions, we can try to discuss as the chaage control is customized for your company, it's very difficult to find a existing solution which can fit your situation perfectly. Many things have trade-off, just depending on which thing has a higher priority. Actually, change control procedure is not very difficult, document of 3 or 4 pages can describe the procedures completely. Just identify each role and the corresponding task, avoid role conflict can minimize many challenges from auditors. the second point is how to prove your workflow daily are fulfilled to the defined change control procedures. This must provide sufficient documents in each step of the workflow. So documentation and signoff are very important from the view of management.

Look forwards for the succeed of your project  ^.^

google 過了, 全世界都係玩自創, 無一套standard guideline. 有d就咁xcopy, 有d自已寫script, 有d用subversion, vss, nant, vault, 等等...

我都明白，因為我上年寫VB.NET都與過，不過我會搵下佢個LOGIC係邊，回用，套用返佢個LOGIC用我自己識既寫法寫返出黎